Friday, November 05, 2004

The Reckoning

The topic of this post will be mainly about the recent Presidential elections and is fraught with feelings of dislike and even hate towards Christians or any followers of the Christian God, and President Bush. I am writing this as a reply to a British fellow whom I have had the opportunity to write to via blog. (Here called "fox") This is based on a post that he made recently. (This may be difficult to follow... mainly b/c fox wrote a very long post.....)

Note: This is purely for the sake of setting him straight.


You claimed that the gay marriage vote coincided with the presidential election and this created more incentive for evangelical Christians to vote. Then you said that ( Evangelical Christians/ Christians) always show support for a Republican leader.

I don’t believe that the gay marriage vote was even the primary reason for evangelical Christians to vote. There are many other reasons as well. Abortion being prominent in many Christian’s minds. And as far as a Christian’s choice of political party, you implied that Christians in particular tend to follow a republican. Not so. Many Christians are democrats. It just turns out that this year, the democratic candidate wasn’t to their liking. Mainly because of his views on homosexuality and abortion. As I hope you know, when people choose a leader, they tend to choose someone that shares similar moral values, principles, and beliefs. It just so happens that Bush was the only candidate that had the values that Christian’s hold dear. So to sum it up, the Christian American’s felt that Bush was the better choice, republican, democrat or otherwise.

You then accused followers of Christ to be, "... the most bigoted, blood thirsty and money-obsessed of all.". You also said that Jesus was, " the most tolerant, left wing figure in history...".

Have you ever read the bible Fox? It appears not, because all of your accusations are wrong. And to put it bluntly....stupid. Jesus, was perfect. The son of God and the redeemer of man. That is how the Christians think of Jesus. Yet, you claim that he is "left wing". In other words, you think that Jesus was a liberal. Correct? That’s what Americans call "left wing". The left wing believes in same-sex marriage and abortion. And it states quite plainly in the bible that homosexuality is wrong. Leviticus 18:22 clearly states, "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.". That was taken from the New International Version of the "Life Application Bible". And abortion is spoken of in the Old Testament. 2 Chronicles 28:3 talks about King David’s son Ahaz who sacrificed his sons in the fire. And if you read all of 2 Chronicles 28, you can see if it isn’t so.
So if Jesus was left wing, he would have stood for abortion and homosexuality, which is exactly what his Father taught us not to indulge. Does that stand to reason? Faith and God’s love don’t adhere to a certain political view. Leave God and politics apart.

You know, I’m so glad that you called us Blood thirsty bigots, because it proves my point about racism.
Have you ever listened to Rap music? R and B? These are 2 of the most popular genres of music in America. And the race that clings to it the most are African Americans (as in they are the one’s who have laid claim to that particular type of music.) And if you read any rap lyrics, you wouldn’t think that Christians are blood thirsty bigots. So as an example, I will add a few lyrics from popular rap singers.

"Kill the white people; we gonna make them hurt; kill the white people; but buy my record first; ha, ha, ha""Kill d’White People"; Apache, Apache Ain’t Shit, 1993, Tommy Boy Music, Time Warner, USA.

"Niggas in the church say: kill whitey all night long. . . . the white man is the devil. . . . the CRIPS and Bloods are soldiers I’m recruiting with no dispute; drive-by shooting on this white genetic mutant. . . . let’s go and kill some rednecks. . . . Menace Clan ain’t afraid. . . . I got the .380; the homies think I’m crazy because I shot a white baby; I said; I said; I said: kill whitey all night long. . . . a nigga dumping on your white ass; fuck this rap shit, nigga, I’m gonna blast. . . . I beat a white boy to the motherfucking ground";"Kill Whitey"; Menace Clan, Da Hood, 1995, Rap-A-Lot Records, Noo Trybe Records, subsidiaries of what was called Thorn EMI and now is called The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

"Devils fear this brand new shit. . . . I bleed them next time I see them. . . . I pray on these devils. . . . look what it has come to; who you gonna run to when we get to mobbing. . . . filling his body up with lead, yah; cracker in my way; slitting, slit his throat; watch his body shake; watch his body shake; that’s how we do it in the motherfucking [San Francisco] Bay. . . . sitting on the dock of the dirty with my AK"; "Heat—featuring Jet and Spice 1"; Paris, Unleashed, 1998, Unleashed Records, Whirling Records.

"These devils make me sick; I love to fill them full of holes; kill them all in the daytime, broad motherfucking daylight; 12 o’clock, grab the Glock; why wait for night"
"Sweatin Bullets"; Brand Nubian, Everything Is Everything, 1994, Elektra Entertainment, Warner Communications, Time Warner, USA.

"A fight, a fight, a nigger and a white, if the nigger don’t win then we all jump in. . . . smoking all [of] America’s white boys"; "A Fight"; Apache, Apache Ain’t Shit, 1993, Tommy Boy Music, Time Warner, USA.

"I kill a devil right now. . . . I say kill whitey all nightey long. . . . I stabbed a fucking Jew with a steeple. . . . I would kill a cracker for nothing, just for the fuck of it. . . . Menace Clan kill a cracker; jack ‘em even quicker. . . . catch that devil slipping; blow his fucking brains out""Fuck a Record Deal"; Menace Clan, Da Hood, 1995, Rap-A-Lot Records, Noo Trybe Records, subsidiaries of Thorn EMI; called The EMI Group since 1997, United Kingdom.

"He prays on old white ladies [who] drive the Mercedes with the windows cracked. . . . you should’ve heard the bitch screaming. . . . sticking guns in crackers’ mouths. . . . the cops can’t stop it. . . . remember 4-29-92, come on; Florence and Normandy coming to a corner near you, cracker; we’ve been through your area, mass hysteria; led by your motherfucking Menace Clan""Mad Nigga"; Menace Clan, Da Hood, 1995, Rap-A-Lot Records, Noo Trybe Records, Time Warner, USA.

"The black man is god. . . . buy a Tec [and] let loose in the Vatican. . . . I love the black faces; so put your Bible in the attic""Ain’t No Mystery"; Brand Nubian, In God We Trust, 1992, Elektra Entertainment, Warner Communications, Time Warner, USA.

"Rhymes is rugged like burnt buildings in Harlem; the Ol Dirty Bastard. . . . I’m also militant. . . . snatching devils up by the hair, then cut his head off" "Cuttin Headz"; Ol Dirty Bastard, Return of the 36 Chambers: the Dirty Version; 1995, Elektra Entertainment, Time Warner, USA.

"Listen to this black visionary, bringing war like a revolutionary. . . . go on a killing spree, putting devils out their misery; hearing screams, sounds of agony; my hostility takes over me. . . . camouflaged ninjas avenging" "Under Seige"; Killarmy, Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, 1997, Wu-Tang Records, Priority Records, The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

THIS IS JUST TO NAME A FEW. Hard to believe isn’t it? These are ALL black individuals who HATE white men. And you think Christians are Blood thirsty? You think that we’re bigots? You think that we’re the most racist and hateful? It only makes me sad. I hope you see my point. And just so you know, I included some rap artists from the United Kingdom. Just for your reference.

And as for you thinking that we’re money obsessed, I think that many people, Christian and otherwise are obsessed with money. That’s one of man’s many short comings. But that statement you made was just preposterous. You can’t say that Christians are the most money obsessed. Money obsession is something that every type of person of any religion is capable of. So your statement wasn’t justified nor was it accurate.
I also was disgusted with your rendition of the 10 commandments. "Thou shalt despise anyone who isn’t white, male, affluent and heterosexual" and "Thou shalt not kill Americans but life anywhere outside that country is cheap and disposable". Only a truly puerile mind could come up with that kind of thing. The bible doesn’t say those things. What you just spouted off was a sick bias. Get over yourself. And if you think that Americans find life outside of our country so "cheap" and "Disposable", then why is our country trillions of dollars in debt? I don’t see other countries with such a charitable demeanor. You are indeed mislead. Perhaps you should complain about big countries like Africa who starve their people to death.

"So the world faces another four years of Bush’s bullying.". What do you mean by bullying? Is your image of Bush so twisted that you can’t determine the difference between "bullying" and a steadfast continence? American’s are despised by so many countries, that if we were to have a leader that was incompetent or easily swayed, we would be in for it. And quite frankly, we couldn’t care less what the world thinks of our choices. This is our country, and if you don’t care for our president, then that’s too bad. Stay in England. The people here that don’t like Bush will just have to go on with their lives, and if they want change, then they can work for that change. Because it’s their right as Americans.

As you go on farther into your post, you make several comments about Bush and the war in Iraq. It’s obvious that you feel Bush is only using the war as a cover up so that we can get more oil. Wrong. The war is to stop terrorism. I’m sure that you’ve heard of the beheadings that have been taking place. Do you ignore that fact that those beheadings are done by terrorists? Do you know the definition of Terrorist or Terrorism? Do you need to be in front of a camera with a knife to your throat to understand? Do you need to see children blown to shreds by their own parents just to kill a few marines? Don’t you see that these people are twisted? They terrorize their whole country. The Iraqi people were living in hell, and yet you claim that America is there to get oil? So what was our incentive to go save your hides during WWII? Yes, WWII. It does have a pertinent point about this war. It’s the principle. The point is that we were provoked. We went into action ONLY after an attack on our home shores. In WWII, it was Pearl Harbor. And 9/11, it was the twin towers.

The items that follow are listed out in the order that they were written.

1. Bush’s unilateral decision making, arrogance, blatant misleading of the American people concerning the war in Iraq, Afganistan and Palestine.

His decision to go to war with Iraq was supported by Sen. Kerry. So if you’re still saying that he is a "unilateral" decision maker, then you need to read a book about democracy. Things must be run through a process. He makes a decision and gets it approved. Bush is a good example of a Christian so we don’t feel that he is arrogant. Maybe it’s just your insecure British sensibilities. And lastly, if you want to talk about misleading people, then you should look up John Kerry’s senatorial voting record.

2. The world is tired of the killing.

Good. That’s why we went to Iraq. To stop the murder and rape and terrorism. Now what’s your point?
3. The world is tired of the empire building.

Last I looked, America was a free country. We obviously don’t care to build an empire. But if you read some of your cultures history books, you’ll find that your ancestor’s were quite adept at empire building.

4. The world is tired of "Bush’s simplistic good/evil "you’re either for us, or against us" polarity".

Because we are the most powerful and the most wealthy country in the world, we have to know who our friends are. So yes, you are for us, or against us.

5. The world is tired of the way that Bush "blackmails smaller countries, gobbles up their trade, strips their resources and spits them out.

Where did you get that trash? From a cereal box???

6. The world is tired of the flouting of international laws, the concentration camps in Guantanamo Bay, the torture and illegal imprisonment of Muslims against whom, there is no evidence at all.

Concentration camps, eh? That’s a sick metaphor Fox. Your accusations cause me no more pause than those of an ill tempered brat. You sceam that their containment was unjust, yet you fail to look farther than the front page of the "London Times". If you plan on making such remarks, be prepared first.

And if you read your history books, you will find out what a concentration camp is. The Muslims that we brought to Guantanamo bay were suspected of war crimes, or ties with Saddam or Osama. They were fed 3 meals a day, bathed, and had a place to sleep. They were not tortured, they were grilled. In other words, we asked them a ton of questions. But now you’re wondering about the female marine that had one of the containees on a leash. She received a Court Marshel and was dealt with accordingly. And after these Muslims were let out of containment, they were able to sue us. And they have.

7. The world is tired of the fictions fed to them.

You can thank the media for that.

So, what have we learned by this? Hopefully that you should leave America to their own decisions rather than assuming that we’ve been duped by our leaders. You’ve been wrong so far, what’s one more? And I believe that had there ever been a real "international fraternity" the world wouldn’t have so many problems. And speaking of which, why don’t you focus some of that passion on your own country’s problems? Your crime rate is, statistically, astronomical since you banned guns. Snort* You guys don’t even need a leader to dupe you. You do a great job of botching things up yourselves. And I still can’t believe that Asians and Europeans find it incredible that 93% of American’s don’t hold passports.... maybe you should get out more often. (By the way, I didn’t know that 93% didn’t own passports! Kudos to you lad, What, what!)

And meanwhile, Fox dear, Osama is somewhere in a mountain cave shaking in his boots.

Congratulations to President Bush for winning the re-election!



Blogger the urban fox said...

Hi Katy,

Wow. This reply is almost four times as long as my original post.

If any reader wants to read the post to which Katy is replying, click here.

Katy, my reply to you can be found here.

All the best.

November 7, 2004 at 5:24 AM  
Blogger Jim said...

Nice of you to quote Leviticus for it's gay clause, I wonder how many of the other prescriptions you Leviticus 15;29. If any woman has unusual menstruation, two turtle doves or two young pigeons must be sacrificed in the temple. I hope you are reading all of Leviticus, and making sure you follow it instead of picking what you will!

November 8, 2004 at 3:35 AM  
Blogger Jonathan Potts said...

Ditto the previous poster. It's curious that many Christians quote Leviticus to condemn homosexuality, but Christians long ago abandoned following Jewish law, which is what Leviticus lays out.

As Bishop John Shelby Sprong said, "I take none of the Bible literally. I take all of it seriously."

November 8, 2004 at 9:48 AM  
Blogger David Fletcher said...

I am a Christian. I am a liberal. As a Christian I do believe that homosexuality and abortion are wrong (I mean you did give THE Bible verses against them), but that is MY belief. Who are we to constitutionalize a belief that only half of the Americans share? Personally I must agree with alot of what fox said in his post. Jesus was anarchist! Think about it. The mistake you´re making is putting Jesus in our time. Think about it in terms of his time. He performed His miracles, or what church officials called sorcery, on the Sabbath, he preached heretical doctrine, he hung out with whores and thieves and tax colectors and basically anyone at the bottom of the barrel of society, he was homeless and mooched off people who where brave enough to believe what this homeless wild man was saying, that´s why he was crufied. I know, I know that is a bit of a brutal interpretation of who Jesus was, but it´s true in terms of how He was seen in His day. Jesus was left wing.
America was founded on liberal priciples for it´s time. Again you must think about it. America was some savage nation that a bunch of people went to when they where fed up with what was going on in there own country. What do you say to liberals now? ``Love it or leave it,`` right? Well that´s how America was founded. Separation of church and state... liberal. The church of England controlled the government. Freedom of the speach/the press... liberal. Because the church controlled the state in England you weren´t alowed to say anything you wanted... it was treason or heresy. Liberalism has been flowing through American veins since the pilgrims said, ``This vast wasteland is waaay better than that other place because we don´t have to do what they say anymore.`` or when the revolutionist said, ``What the hell? I thought we got away from these guys... I know let´s kick there ass and send them back to where they came from and write down a declaration that says we´re not gonna take this shit anymore!`` The whole thing really started when the south wouldn´t get up with the times and change it´s ways to industrialism but instead stayed conservative to their agricultural ways. However it was pretty radical for them to separate from the country completely because they weren´t going to take their bullying... especially Virgina, the first state.
O yeah... Menace Clan, Brand Nubian, Apache, and Paris, are all from a segment of rap called horrorcore, they say those things for shock value... really no more than the marilyn mansons of rap. I suggest you seek further than PMRC if you want to say something about music. Ol´ Dirty Bastard is also known for the craziness of his rap, like a schizophrenic. And I don´t know much about Killarmy, but I´m sure it´s something similar. And as for your seven points I agree with your response to point 5... I´m just gonna have to call you sometime for the rest, this comment might as well be a blog post.
So what have we learned? Liberalism isn´t as stupid as you think... we just need to put up a better candidate next time.

November 8, 2004 at 1:57 PM  
Blogger Katy said...

Ok, I've read all of the comments that people have made, and i really do appreciate it! Thanks for your input fellas.


Thanks a lot, but you must understand that leviticus is in the Old testament. That means that if the people wanted to be forgiven, they had to sacrifice things.... then came the new testament, and Jesus's blood was the ultimate sacrifice. Oh and Read Genesis19:3-9, Romans 1:26-27, 1 Timothy 1:26, 2 Samuel 1:26, and Leviticus 20:13. But you must also understand that in my religion, sexual immorality of ANY KIND is just the same as being homosexual. And don't have a fit, my best friend is a lesbian, but that doesn't change the teachings of my religion. That is "non denomination" Christianity. Thanks again!

And thank you to the other guy who commented! The same goes to you! (read above)


Its good to hear from you. Please do call. And you know that i don't hate homosexuals David. I just go by what I'm taught by the bible and God. No one can blame me for my faith. Please call sometime!! I miss our discussions!


November 8, 2004 at 2:41 PM  
Blogger sharymannon said...

i am also a christian, but a thinking one. and i believe bush is talking the talk without one iota of intention of walking the walk. iraq is more about oil and halliburton (cheney was ceo there) making money than anything to do with terrorism or weapons of mass destruction. the USA has probably the greatest store of weapons of mass destruction on this planet. and ask anyone from latin america about the puppets we have put in place as leaders there and the horrid killers like manuel noriega we trained so he could go and murder many of his fellow citizens.

i fear you have fallen for the lies bush and his cronies tell at every possible occasion. many would like to believe he is "moral" and wants to do the right thing. i guess his cocaine and alcohol using years don't count. and pulling strings to get placed in the national guard (to avoid going to war in vietnam) and then not even showing up for his physical or finishing his commitments with the guard... yes, those are all lovely moral examples of a good christian man acting out his ideals. he was born into money and powe and politics and he doesn't have a clue about how most of us live or struggle. he does not have your best interest at heart, my friend. he will say anything to get more power and keep the status quo in check. i am just sorry that many christians who really want to believe in someone good, have fallen for his lies. he has been the cause of so many innocent lives being taken in iraq and afghanistan. how can that be "moral"? and shipping hard working american's jobs overseas? does that seem moral? whose sweat built this country? oh yes, those same unemployed workers bush cares nothing about. and education? don't even get me started with what a liar he is about wanting "no child left behind". i feared for my niece and nephew's life at the public school they attended, and my county had to impose an emergency tax just to save teachers jobs and "unnecessary" school programs like music, libraries, art, and athletics. even with the tax, schools are overcrowded and very underfunded. and all of this crisis has come about and worsened in the last four years.

you are an intelligent person. if you look at the true issues and not the rhetoric and slogans and catch phrases the republicans have thrown at you time and time again, you will see that bush truly does not have america's best interests at heart. he is blinded by power and greed and a desire to avenge the one who tried to kill his daddy. he is so cliche, it is sad. and i am very sad that many americans were fooled by him, and a great number of them too intimidated by his party's fear tactics to even go out and vote. time will tell the truth, and the world beyond the usa (yes, there is one) is wholeheartedly voicing their concerns and worries about how his policies are negatively affecting our brothers and sisters on this planet. doesn't Jesus say to love them all as we love ourselves?

i wish you the best. and i continue mourning for those who suffer due to our leaders,

November 11, 2004 at 6:46 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

If I were Jesus, I'd land on another planet and start again, because this one seems to have selectively interpreted The Bible in favour of some very unsympathetic rules.

My personal opinion is that people like you are particular favourites of Bush and his administration, you are easy to rule, and seem to question nothing. You make the facts fit your beliefs, and not the other way round, which is highly dangerous, if you want to believe everything is peachy when the free heating you are getting is called Global Warming. The frog will boil in it's own water.

"2. The world is tired of the killing.Good. That’s why we went to Iraq. To stop the murder and rape and terrorism. Now what’s your point?"

That US soldiers rape, murder, and terorise Irq, and Irqis. They sure did a good job in stopping rape, murder and terrorism : if you kill everyone then there'll be no more murder, rape, and terrorism.


I pity the world.

November 17, 2004 at 3:33 AM  
Blogger monogodo said...

I was going to say something, but changed my mind. I decided it isn't worth it. It'd be like beating my head against the wall.

One thing I do want to say: it's "y'all" not "ya'll". Y'all is a contraction of "you" and "all". The apostrophe takes the place of the omitted letters. Unless you are forming a contraction of two different words, in which case you should let us know so we can understand what you're saying.

November 19, 2004 at 5:52 PM  

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